Hi everyone, I usually don't ask for things like this, but I'm having a bit of a problem with some people over at C2F and I'm wondering what I should do. I came to you guys because more than anywhere else, this is where I know that I've gotten the most support and truly feel as if I belong and have friends that I know that I can count on for help. Well here it is, I posted my recent character "Chinese Zodiac" over there and received a few very rude statements of my work mostly to effect of that I suck, draw like a child and should just quit drawing. I've already defended myself and reported the user(s) to a moderator, and I've updated my personal info that appears next to all my posts to ask that users be constuctive when evaluating my work because I know that I don't draw very well and need improvement and that rudeness is against the rules of the board and will not be tolerated. I guess what I'm asking here is that those of you here that do know me and have given me plenty of support here and elsewhere that maybe you can go over there and post some kind words about me to show that you do support me. I did not post this request there because I'm not even sure that I do have that much support over there other than from some of you guys here that also post there. I don't get a lot of comments over there anyway, but that could just be because my art isn't that good to begin with, but then again even some of the really great art over there doesn't get any comments so that's hard to gage. Should I make a post over there stating how I feel, should I continue to post somewhere where I get little or no support and so far two instances of ridicule, or should I just leave it at what I've already done with my own defenses that I've taken and continue to post in such an environment in defiance of a few bad eggs?

Okay Darth buddy, I have committed at C2F go read it. And I advise everyone else to do the same just to show how we are different than other sites as a group.
Comics2Flim Review of Darths Drawing

Yeah DP. I read the reviews and it pissed me off. Not so much because he chose to 'openly bash' your work but because he doesn't carry the credentials to do so. I posted a comment on his 'critique methods' as well.
The bad thing about being an artist is that ultimately everyone has an opinion on our work whether its good or bad. I post at C2F regularly and can count on one hand the number of times I've actually gotten comments from anyone other than the people who personally know me. It doesn't bother me because it doesn't make me question my talents. However it didn't seem right that an individual chose to bypass commenting on 'Front Page' art simply to attack someone like you.

DP, I've just read what those two said about your artwork and they aren't worth the time of day.

Your art has improved since you first began and you are trying which is more than I can say for art bashers. I love your concepts and plot lines that you have going on. You have a great imagination, so don't let a few rotten apples spoil what you have going on.

Never thought I'd actually get around to joining this site...

Thank you, Morgan and Starchild for your posts about this, and apologies to Paul for the behaviour of these two assholes and for my not having been around in the past few days to do something about them earlier. I don't know if one of my colleagues has responded to your complaint about these two yet, but trust me, they're on the watchlist.

It's the big "B" Hey buddy glad to see you come around, even if it is under unusual circumstances. Come by more often and I haven't forgotten good old C2F, I'll be posting more there soon.

Sorry I wasn't able to get around to reading this before now DP. Morgan told me about it a couple days ago. As I read those comments it just made me furious. For one thing, GM takes care of it's own in my opinion. If you attack one of us, you attack us all and I won't stand for it.

I appreciate B coming to aid in this situation, thanks for setting those two asshats straight and don't be a stranger around here. I'd love to see some of your work posted here.

As I have a big mouth and get myself into trouble to often, I won't comment at C2F about this. In any case, Morgan and Star and the others have said everything I would say. Only I wouldn't be as polite.

DP, you have improved and that's what matters. The fact of the matter is you do what you do because you get enjoyment out of it. Don't ever let douchebag idiots make you feel like you aren't worth it. You know what you can do, you know where you need improvement and you have friends that will be honest and tactful with you. Random morons who like to stir up trouble should be ignored. I mean really, these guys are picking on you because neither one of them have done anything to show what they can do. Sad case of bullying. And bully's usually pick on people because they feel inferior themselves.

You keep on trucking away and don't ever let someone tell you to quit. And remember, we will always have your back.

Thank you my friends for coming to my aide and defending me. I knew that I could count on all of you. I won't ever stop making strides to improve no matter what anyone says. What hurt most is that they didn't even bother to get to know me or my personal history or anything like that like you all have. They're just a bunch of new users who waltzed onto the site like the owned the place and started bashing me for no good reason. One or both of them could be the same jerk who started with me over there a year ago, under different screen names, not sure, but as long as I have true friends who support me and offer me honest and true help I won't worry about them or anyone else who tries the same thing in the future. I really don't post there that much anyway, at least I haven’t been in a long time mostly because I’ve truly been trying to only post a few seasonal themed items that I’ve wanted share which was the case with this piece. I probably should have done better with it, but I did indeed use a photo reference to get the pose and proportions for the size of the character. The line work and shapes of some of her features might not be up to snuff, I know that I need to still work on that, but at least I know enough to use photo references and other tools such as that to make better art and that’s where I’ve improved. Anyway, to just bash it outright and everything else that I’ve done up to now which was in the past and is irrelevant is truly uncalled for, and I did PM Robbo about it, but not sure if he go my message or not as I have yet to see a PM back from him.

Paul, Robbo only read your PM after I'd noticed the posts in question and brought his attention to the problem. He didn't get an automatic notification of the message like he should have, for some reason. If he hasn't replied, it's probably because I already noticed what was happening and am dealing with it. Trust me, neither Rob, nor myself, nor the other C2F admins have any tolerance for assholes like these two.

Hello, I would like to say that I have to agree with Morgan and the other members of Graphic Mouse. There is a right way and a wrong way to present criticism.
First and foremost let me stress that everyone who is an “artist” has his or her own style. If we only had one style of art in the world how boring would that be?
In truth I love the randomness of the different aspects of art and that to me is what makes true art.

Individuals like Darth_Paul impress and intrigue me. You may be asking yourself why? The truth is; because I am an artist. I have a degree in graphic design and illustration. And I truly love art of all calibers. I feel that art can only help to improve the world.

I have students that say all the time “I wish or I want my art to look just like yours” and I will say “why is that” the reply will be “because it is perfect”
“Perfect” humm “so the only art work allowed into this world has to be that of perfection?” I will ask my students. They normally reply with “NOooo.”
“Perfection is a funny thing.” You see I tell my students “if you are trying your best and you are happy with it, then it is perfect.” No-one and I do mean no-one can tell you your artwork is not perfect, as long as it is perfect to you. It is exactly the way you drew it the way you wanted the world to view it then it is perfect all Because it is ART!

None; not one thing about art is set in stone.
There are guide lines, ie. a person is normally 7 heads tall; a face can be divided by the length of an eye, but all and all. Art has no boundaries; no walls; No “perfect guide lines” there is NOTHING IN ART THAT MUST BE FOLLOWED! If you wanted to draw a dot on a canvas; put a frame around it; and hang it on your wall it is still ART no-one else has to think it is perfect or even like it but you.
Because you enjoy it and find it beautiful is all that really matters. People change art every day. I am a true believer that everyone is able to create beautiful works of art. All you need is time, patience, heart and the willingness to try.

Sorry, Paul... I been a bit out of the loop but I responded as soon as I heard. I really think you managed to handle yourself with grace and dignity in spite of those insulting idiots. Sorry you had to go through that. I was very upset over it and probably overreacted to the matter myself but I wanted to make sure they understood what it felt like to be on the other end of what they were handing out. Well, last time I checked one had been booted and the very thin ice was cracking below the feet of the other.

DP - I usually don't follow the forums much but did read this thread and the posts at C2F. I couldn't agree more with the Graphicmouse Community in backing you and your art and your passion for continuning it with more drawings, characters and concepts. I admire your committment to continuing and improving.

I myself struggle with what I would consider the "Quaility" of my own drawing ability. I will attempt to focus on it from time to time, but find myself drifting back between 3d art, computer art, coloring or whatever.

You are however a rock! - Focused on your characters, concepts and improving your art as you go. I have the utmost respect for that.

I look forward to seeing more...

I like that you keep tryin' with your art Paul and that you enjoy drawin' . . . I don't think the way these guys approached the "critique" was the best choice but there are always a few out there. Of course they don't post art on top of everything else, me bein' a big supporter of the "If you're gonna tell people how to do things , be sure you KNOW what your doing as well" stance. . . . I've noticed that on many of these posting sites the LESS skilled the artist the MORE critiques they have, the guys that are actually GOOD artists rarely have much to say . . . I'm curious have you picked up that "Dynamic Anatomy" book by Burne Hogarth? I think it will really help you. Also I think if ya wanna step your game up just drop doin' these full color pin ups (just for awhile) and just do A LOT of figure drawin' and master the human body, because sometimes I feel that you're so into getting an idea out of your head that ya overlook some of the more IMPORTANT aspects of the figure, anyway hope this was helpful don't let anyone ever make you stop drawin' . . . . NEVER stop drawin'!

Hey Darth Paul. I read the posts and will comment there when i'm done here. (lots to read.*whew*) Just some words of consolment.

First, as i believe someone else pointed out already, they're not artist and don't know the first thing about drawing themselves. Its like asking a Baker to work on your car. They exist outside our genre.

Second, People are always bigger butholes on the internet. I think its because they rarely have to face consequences for their actions and thats the way they like it.
"90% of the people who talk smack on the internet are pussies out in the world."

Third, I've seen artists that i actually didn't think were good become rich and famous because their books were good. The Flaming Carrot, Blankets, Friggin' Sock Monkey. Remember what you do is art. And you have every right to do whether or not you fit into their Micheal Turner/Joe Mad hole the commoners have carved out for artists.


If drawing is not something in your soul that you feel compelled to do no matter what, then please stop drawing. But if your really an artist you won't stop. You won't be able to, not even if you wanted to.

"Those who work with their hands are laborers.
those who work with their hands and their heads are Craftsmen
Those who work with their Hands, their heads, and their hearts are artists."





Quick sidebar: Anybody else think its funny that this Thread is right above the Rob Liefeld thread?

TFroggy wrote:

Hello, I would like to say that I have to agree with Morgan and the other members of Graphic Mouse. There is a right way and a wrong way to present criticism. First and foremost let me stress that everyone who is an “artist” has his or her own style. If we only had one style of art in the world how boring would that be? In truth I love the randomness of the different aspects of art and that to me is what makes true art. Individuals like Darth_Paul impress and intrigue me. You may be asking yourself why? The truth is; because I am an artist. I have a degree in graphic design and illustration. And I truly love art of all calibers. I feel that art can only help to improve the world. I have students that say all the time “I wish or I want my art to look just like yours” and I will say “why is that” the reply will be “because it is perfect” “Perfect” humm “so the only art work allowed into this world has to be that of perfection?” I will ask my students. They normally reply with “NOooo.” “Perfection is a funny thing.” You see I tell my students “if you are trying your best and you are happy with it, then it is perfect.” No-one and I do mean no-one can tell you your artwork is not perfect, as long as it is perfect to you. It is exactly the way you drew it the way you wanted the world to view it then it is perfect all Because it is ART! None; not one thing about art is set in stone. There are guide lines, ie. a person is normally 7 heads tall; a face can be divided by the length of an eye, but all and all. Art has no boundaries; no walls; No “perfect guide lines” there is NOTHING IN ART THAT MUST BE FOLLOWED! If you wanted to draw a dot on a canvas; put a frame around it; and hang it on your wall it is still ART no-one else has to think it is perfect or even like it but you. Because you enjoy it and find it beautiful is all that really matters. People change art every day. I am a true believer that everyone is able to create beautiful works of art. All you need is time, patience, heart and the willingness to try.

I'm taking an Art Appreciation Course and i completly agree with everything you said. I saw Picasso's "Guarnico" and i found it awesome. It is truly great. Yet some people think Picasso can't draw.